Holy cow...homework, and I have to cite my sources! You're a tough one, Let's Talk! Here ya go: Hillary says that money does not influence how she votes, however, she is one of the biggest recipients of campaign money from pharmaceutical companies. Hillary received $269,436.That's all I can think of for now. Does this mean I didn't pass? My biggest concern with Hillary is her connections to the Pharmaceutical companies and how that would affect any health care plan she may have. I don't hate Hillary, but I'm not sure if I trust her not to be another Washington insider who will let the lobbyists continue to run our country. If you connect the dots to her yes vote for the Peruvian trade deal... "The Generic Pharmaceutical Association (GPhA) praised the House of Representatives for its strong bipartisan approval of the U.S.-Peru Free Trade Agreement, which proves that our nation's free trade agreements can foster innovation while also ensuring that our trading partners have access to safe and affordable medicines."Hillary's yes vote for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment.
Oh Mary Ellen, that was and outstanding link and I pulled a chart that shows all candidates acceptance and yes I am using it on this post.It appears that they all have accepted money, it's just that Hillary accepted the most.Great comment Mary Ellen and you know that I am cracking up over it, thanks because I really needed the laugh.
She's such a faceless generic politician, I can't think of 3 (or even one) reasons to be for or against her.Yes it sucks that she voted in favor of that resolution giving Bush the right to invade Iran if "necessary," but most of the Democratic contenders seem pretty spineless and faceless anyway.I'll probably vote for her as the lesser of two evils if she gets the nomination (which is NOT a done deal no matter what the talking heads say).
I with you on that Tom, we don't yet know you will get the nod. If it's Hillary, I to must vote for her or look at another Republican running this country again. That's what people don't understand or care about. If they use their votes for a third party, they will allow the Republicans to come right back into power.
I don't like to look at things in black and white terms, but I guess I do believe that a vote for a third party candidate is basically a vote for the GOP in the 2008 elections. If you're not in favor of whoever the Democratic candidate is in 2008, you will basically be in favor of further degradation of America and of the Constitution, the continued deterioration of our world standing, the furthering of economic and environmental collapse, the continuation of abusive powers being illegally built into the executive branch, the continued loading of the Supreme Court with religious right wingers to the point that it becomes a rubber stamp, etc. etc. etc. I like to look back and laugh at all the conservatives who voted for Ross Perot in 1992 and ended up possibly costing Bush Sr. a chance at a second term... and due to their fine thinking and voting, ended up then with eight years of Clinton! Hehehe! But now I shudder to think that there might actually be a few million liberals and moderates stupid enough to do something similar, to vote for a third party candidate just because Mrs. Clinton rubs them the wrong way personally. If they detest her politically, I could understand it, but LT, you do a good thing here in asking people why they actually don't like her, and for them to then back it up with some facts.It isn't that I don't like Hillary Clinton as much as I just dislike her candidacy. I think it is bad strategy for the Dems to nominate her. At a time when we need to get neocons out of power, the left is ready to nominate a candidate who generates about as much hatred among Republicans as Bush does among Democrats. That's pretty odd too, when you think about it, because she and her husband have tended toward being moderates, not socialists... but it's sure not the way to attract moderate Republicans who are dissatisfied with the neocons. Do some liberals not like her because she isn't far enough to the left? Maybe.I'll tell you, I don't care if she is leftist or middle-of-the-road. I just don't want Rudy in the White House bombing Iran, attacking Syria, and doing whatever he might do. I can imagine a kookball like him trying to MAKE us sacrifice the way America had to in WWII once he gets WWIII going. I also don't want Mike Huckabee pushing religion even farther into politics than it has gotten already. Heck, I think any of the GOP candidates would keep the Iraq occupation going (I refuse to call it a "war", it's an OCCUPATION). Who wants or needs that? I don't think the majority of Americans want it... but how much of that majority is willing to vote for Clinton?I think Mrs. Clinton is extremely intelligent, and that she is probably capable of being a good president. I can't say that I like her or dislike her personally, that is, I certainly have no deep-seated loathing of her as I do people like Dumbya and Cheney. I continue to think Clinton might not be the best candidate the Dems could offer in this place at this time because of all the big political baggage that mostly has to do with her husband. I think the GOP will make hay over her past, and I don't doubt they have some real doozy accusations they're just waiting to spring on her at the right moments. If she gets nominated and can survive the attacks, I think she will do fine as president. But I question whether or not she CAN survive all the upcoming smear campaigns. I like to think she is bright enough to have already planned responses for most eventualities, because I know that getting caught off guard makes her uncomfortable (i.e. in the debate where she was asked about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants).
I have no link (heard a rumor). Actually, I had the radio on a liberal talk show, and it said 50% to 35% said they were ready for a Democrat to be in office. However:Hillary and Gooey onme is running neck and neck in polls right now. I don't like her, I don't trust her, I want her out of there ASAP, she's nothing but Bush Lite. But at least it's the "Lite" version. One step at a time.
A good source for tracking campaign donations is OpenSecrets.org.I don't like Hillary because she has consistently voted for "globalization" even though it costs Americans their jobs, and consistantly votes pro-war even though it costs Americans their lives. She says health care is important to her, but she has never introduced a single bill on that topic, so I suspect she's lying.Also, she cackles. I hate that.
I have learned from comment section. to start answering each of your comments one at a time and not to put them in one big section. I really enjoy reading what each of you have to say and your opinion counts, as for as I'm concerned.Now I said all that to say this. From this point on all comments will be respond to separately, because I need to give each of your opinions, room to stand out in how I view them. That goes for all my sites as of today.I will be back shortly, as this is a busy day and time does not permit me to start on this section of the post.
That depends on what your defination of "link" is.The woman that was saying for the love of jesus and all that is truly good and healthly get out ..Get Behind us EVIL EMPIRE. and the level of hysteria similiar to what a salem whitch hunt sounded like..BUT its not then, its now. And this protester is coming from a very code pink place - could even be plant - thats how slick Hill is- in her own right. 3 - i do not want a dynasty in america. And she is not the democratic standard - we can do much better. 4- She is media darling, big brother. Oh i mean sister. she is a NEO lib and a hawk. and deep in the NEO nonesense and murderous policies. She will not bring peace to the middle east. - she will maintain the ongoing narrative right to Pakistan and Iran.5 She throws like a girl. I have lost friends over my loathing, of Hillary for all the right reasons. Yes my loathing is visceral - it even scares me, but i must fight for our country's freedom from dynasty and oligarchy.
Mary Ellen , hillary 's big lie is that she will mandate that the pharmaceutical will negogiate with Medicare. That will not have teeth ,when it really should..and should have all alongThat Medicare Part D - outrages me so much that i forgo it - NO i will never turn my medicare over to any HMO/Insurance company to manage ..and drug prices are obscene and highly manipulated....grr. end rant here.Hillary will not come through on that one, precisely because the lobbiests do own her.
Mary ellen that is a freaking GREAT LINK !!! way to connect those dots gal. see i didn't even read the whole thread..(naughty me) i had a visceral reaction to Hillary - and i have used the hate even. Its just short hand for loath , disdain, find completely regugnant , reprehensible, aversive. People are starting to notice..and will utilize calling out hater , hater..but its not her personally -but the way she operates polically - I hate her politics. I will call that the politics of Hillary.As time goes on those that "dislike" her will have to say we HATE her politics. And good on Edwards for calling her on it ..Good on him ! Now someone tell me that Obama did not vote for the Peruian Deal and really make my day.
I don't dislike Sen. Clinton, and really don't understand why there's such an emotional response to her. If she's the nominee of the party, I'll vote for her, for three reasons: A vote for a third party will only help the neocons; I will be happy to have lived long enough to see a woman in the Whitehouse; and it will be fun to watch former Pres. Clinton be our first First Gentleman - he's such a ham, he'll love it and make the most of it, maybe as an ambassador to all the countries the last administration pissed off.But in the primary, my vote will go to Obama because I like the ideas he put forth in his book, The Audacity of Hope, and because he was able to get legislation passed by uniting both sides of the aisle during his six years in the Illinois State Senate. We need more of that kind of thinking.
Snave, I like what you are saying and I loved your post on the subject as well.I feel the same alsoregardless whomever our candidate is in the Democratic party that person, will get my vote.
Great point The Future Was Yesterday, I really like the way you put that; "she's nothing but Bush Lite. But at least it's the "Lite" version. One step at a time."
She's a politician, a humanist and a believer.
ThomasLB, thanks for the link. I'll take a look at it after this section of comments. I'm not taking sides on Hillary Thomas, I'm just trying to find out why she is so hated and I respect what your opinions are and why you feel this way about her."She says health care is important to her, but she has never introduced a single bill on that topic, so I suspect she's lying."I recall when she came to the White House with her husband, she tried to introduce a Health care plan, somewhat similar to all three plans proposed by her, Obama and Edwards. The Republicans and Democrats shot her down then.She has a health care plan now and it's similar to what both Edwards and Obama plans are saying.
proudprogressive, you lost me with the comment; " She will not bring peace to the middle east. - she will maintain the ongoing narrative right to Pakistan and Iran." What are you baseing this on?
Candace, you and I are on the same page with this. I have not made up my mind about whom I would support, but I will say, whomever gets the nod as the Democratic nominee, will get my support and vote.
Her words, her votes, her stances, and i will not vote third party no no. I will simply not vote for the first time in my life. I am sorry but as gay person, in retirement i have had more time to go over the doings of the dems under the first clinton. I have an aversion to notion of dynasty ..and i do believe that ANY democrat is automatically better then any thug. I just don't though i have been a yellow dog dem all my life till recently a green , i re registered for the primaries to help the dems. I am sure there are enough party loyalists that will carry the Dems to the WH. so i cannot actively participate in what i see as fundamental bad policies and politics. Its nothing personal with her a person , but its the history. And its her Neo liberal politics. I am a consciencious objector ! I will note vote.
Ronald 'More-More' Moshki, I'll agree with that.
opps typo I do NOT believe any democrat is better than any republican - I am a green at heart nowadays. Others mentioned her politics too, she is more like lieberman oh Lets talk don't make me go on. Her M.O. is repugnant to me and i do not like her cackle either. It conveys a smugness beyond belief, Also her OILY machine is really distasteful to me and four more yrs of Clinton bashing which is a cottage industry for the thugs is something i hope the country does not have to endure. And i am happy to say that i truly believe Obama or Edwards just may be our nominee in the general. She is a hawk, she voted on the red guard thing with Iran - she is playing to close to the republicans ie. her reversal on drivers licenses for undocumented workers..she blows in the wind and anyone who wants rethug votes that badly is scarey to me. As i have said - i have lost some friends over this one. My feelings are that strong. She also will for the Party itself bring out every Democrat hating person out there to vote..a magnet for more controvery vs. a real change for america..but i will drop out of this conversation now. but you asked so i answered and answered.
proudprogressive, I am very sorry and apologize I do not want you to think that I am pressuring you.I have too much respect for you to even think that way. Once again forgive me.I have no problem with how you feel about Hillary and I respect your opinion on how you feel.I'm not God or a King and I for one will never say that you are wrong for feeling the way you feel. Here at Let's Talk and all my sites, your opinion matters and I respect whatever that might be proudprogressive.You are welcome here to say what is on your mind and I did ask how you felt about Hillary.
i am sorry man, but i am big fan of sen. clinton, I love her husband, and if bringing Bill back to the white house means electing the sennator, it all great for me. i say better two clinton then one.
There's nothing to be sorry about Emmanuel M Liu, that's how you feel about Hillary and Bill. I myself have no problem with her at all.I have not decided whom I would like to be the nominee for the Democratic party as of yet and that's all.
Hillary vocally supported the war until a few months before she decided to run, now she is coy with her views.Hillary voted for the Iran resolution like she did Iraq, which will give Bush the go ahead to attack Iran.Hillary is a plastic figure with Republican leanings.
LT , you are a gentle guy, and asking an earnest question. Maybe it is i who ought to apologize, but my feeling so strong and certain based on her record , the history , the M.O. My views on the Neo liberals,of her ilk - are practically ungovernable IN that I figure IF a person does NOT see this for themselves. They in fact are sadly under informed. (actually many of my friends would cast votes for her IF and its a big IF she is the nominess.) I still love them , and they me. However one sorta friend accused me of being a Hill "hater" and this from a psuedo ?! leftie. so i am a little touchy on it. How people can NOT see certain things..but thats what makes the world go round, the conversation - so let me apologize to you my dear as well - see even asking for links tweeks me because there is a ton of information , daily doings and writings out there that indeed form a very clear picture of what Hillary stands for IF one is looking. Renditions, escholon or surrvailance , welfare to workfare, DOMA, War Crimes in Kosovo, Nafta, lying about the Peru deal last week !!! - and pulling the "girl, and oh don't attack my character card" gimme a break ..so i promise not to get into this much more - indeed people need to research and vote the best they can and how they want to given our choices. I have been looking very hard. We need change !!! New people, new faces. Dodd himself brought up the question of her electability - i have been watching all the debates...so anyhow. No hard feelings at all ! Thank you for the venue. Really thank you, and know that i have respect for you and the other commenters , though we may disagree. fondly prog.
OK Larry, I hear you loud and clear on Hillary.
proudprogressive, you light my heart and I haven't disagreed with anything you said. Your opinion is your opinion and I just thank you for sharing it here.
She voted for the war and the Patriot Act. She's in the pocket of the drug & insurance companies. She's a panderer. She'll say anything to anyone to get their vote. I truly don't know what she believes in. She's a Republican-lite. She's another Clinton. It's time for some new blood!She is unelectable. I'm all for a woman President, but not her.
Hi Lizzy, well I guess you covered all the grounds on the dislike of Hillary.After viewing some of the reasons why people don't like Hillar, I truely think we will have a problem if she's the nominee.
I should have clarified- I meant that as a Senator, she hasn't introduced any bills. She did make one stab at health care during the first year of her husband's first term, but beat a hasty retreat and never tried again.I don't dislike Senator Clinton more than I dislike the other candidates. (Wow- I just realized what an infinitely depressing thing that is to say.)
PS- off topic, but you might like LiveJournal better than Blogger. They have nested comments, which makes it much easier to carry on a dialogue.
Thanks Thomas, I'll look into LiveJournal. I'm on my daughters laptop computer and I'm also without my reading glasses, so I'll take a look at it later today.
I just think Hillary Clinton will only make the intense partisanship even worse. Whether that's a fair criticism or not, I'd be surprised if that isn't the outcome should she become the nominee/president. More than anything, I just want a functional government that is more concerned about the people than political points.
That's a fair criticism Andy and very true. I just think that whomever gets the nod. The Republicans will turn this into what they want it to be, but Hillary will intense the matter.
Although I get a lot of crap, I actually really like Hillary. Although she isn't my first choice, I do like her, and will definetly support her if she get's the nomination.
The one and only reason I need to dislike her is because I don't trust her. She has an appeal of smile in your face, stab you in the back.
phil_in_ny, from what I've been reading about Hillary on this comment section, there's a lot of dislike of Hillary. I'm sorry that you are getting a lot of crap simply because you support her.I think that everyone has a right to like or dislike whom they wish and if you support Hillary then that's fine by me because I respect your right to do so.
Hi Pennsylvania Independent and welcome to Let's Talk.Well at least you are being honest and you do not like the smile in your face, stab you in the back appeal of Hillary.I think someone on CNN after the debates said that she smiles at you, while at the same time sucking you in the face. How clever.
1.) Hill is way to tied up with the pharmas, and we need someone who isn't encumbered by those ties to look at fixing the mess that American healthcare is.2.) Hill refuses to put a timeline on getting American forces out of Chimpy's Iraqi hellhole. As a matter of fact, she says they might stay there forever.3.) Hill has steadfastly refused to admit that voting to authorize Chimpy's Oedipal crusade on Iraq was WRONG. If she did, I might be willing to listen closer.
Great points Jolly, I'll say you have presented some commanding points as well as others on Hillary. I wonder if she really have a chance to take Iowa.
Okay:(1) Clinton's too liberal on foreign policy (a neoliberal instituationist who's wishy-washy on Iraq).(2) She's a big flip-flopper.(3) She resorts to victimization when it suits her, which not only defeats her claim to be able to govern with the big boys, but says a lot about how she'll handle international crises. I don't want the U.S. playing victim after the next attack.I blog on Clinton all the time:American Power
Thanks for the visit Donald Douglas, and welcome to Let's Talk.Your opinions on Hillary is noted and I guess each one of us have an opinion that seems to say that just maybe Hillary might not get the chance to become the first woman President, but we shall see by this time next year.
This may be the first election in a long long time where the right third party candidate could actually win.I'm personally very nervous about the accelerated primaries, and no real convention. This is not feeling like democracy and 24 years of 2 familys in office doesn't feel like democracy either.That alone is enough reason to oppose a Clinton or a Bush.
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